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Post by muleskinner on Mar 22, 2011 1:06:40 GMT -5
I can honestly say I am one of those who posts on numerous other forums. But I can also say I have taken a ribbing on the other forums for posting to much and to many builds at one time. Also I was invited to join another forum and did so only to get my lower end reamed out for posting comments about some models which according to the big guys who run it, that section of the forum was set up for people who have so many points for posting and is a place for them only to show their models and to wind down after their hectic model building. In other words what I call the modeling Elite who concider themselves above everyone else? There should be no disscrepency about where you should be able to post and when or how many posting points you should have to post there. Ive been modeling for a long time and I don't feel I am any better than the next modeler in this field. I am still learning things from other modelers On this forum and others which are helpful in building my logging models. If someone has a question about a model I have posted I try to answer that question the best I can or find the information and then post it.
I have also been told on a few forums to shorten my model posting critique and get right to the point of how its built. But in my line of modeling, some of the things I build from the logging industry needs to be explained as I model in an area where the things I build are not something most people have ever seen or new existed. Knowing the history of the unusual gives a better idea of the use of that item and a better understanding of the historical value of the model and why it was built. Ive had my lead line twisted more than once over this and have dropped off other forums for that reason. I am different modeler than a lot of you as I don't like the new look on a model as when I was logging I spent my days up to my neck in dust, dirt, mud and on equipment that hadn't seen the water and soap in years. Its the only way I know how to present my models to what they represent. THE LOGGING INDUSTRY of the Pacific Northwest. I've had my lead line twisted in PMs on other forums for the way I present them. I love looking at other builds where a rig or piece of equipment is presented in the new. Thsi is the diffenrence between my son and I who is also on this forum. He likes the new look in logging and I like the old. But we are both building representatives of the same thing The logging Industry. There should not be any discrepency weather it is weathered or not. I go through the same thing at model shows when they tell me weathering belongs in the armor section and not in the highway section.
Now I am going to twist a few lead lines. There is nothing wrong here on the forum, its the outside forums which offer members here a better deal on another forum and build it up to where they can't resist the offer and then when they get there they find out that it isn't what they expected. I can honestly say I have had offers from seven other forums, besides the ones I am on and turned them down completely after reading their Elite rules. There are no Elite modelers, we are all the same and have different ideas about presentation. And just because a modeler has more awards and what not than the average modeler, doesn't give that modeler the right to dic tate what is right or wrong in modeling. I have trophies and awards from all the shows I've attended over the years but what does it prove? I am an average modeler and have seen models on this forum right here which make me lookm like a novis.
I think what this forum needs to do is get in touch with those other members who have gone over to other fiorums and find out why. Also you guys at the top need to get in a chat room or some thing and discuss what would make it better and then present it to us the members. This forum in my opinion is the better of all the ones I have been on and believe it or not this is the first forum I joined as far as modeling goes. You might think about breaking some of the catagories down into ser catagories I.E Fuel Tankers, Heavy Haulers, what ever. Make the builds more visiable by name and catagory.
I know I'm getting a little long winded here but I want you all to know I am not giving up on this forum, and you are stuck with me. This is one of the best run and monitored forums and soon to be the only one in the states i May be on the way my lead lines been twisted on the others.
William
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phoneguy
Regional OTR Driver
if you're done with it, it's not finished!
Posts: 2,278
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Post by phoneguy on Mar 22, 2011 8:02:50 GMT -5
BRAVO!!!!!!! WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!! I will never build as good as you or others, but that's not your fault and I won't critique someone because the have the skills, talent, and patience to do such amazing builds. I've had my share of "yawns" here, and as long as you tell me what I could have done, wether on the forum or by pm--I have no problem with that. It's the guys that say "crappy build like the rest" or "you haven't learned anything" that need to get a life. I don't have the mad skills as some, that's ok and I don't have the patience--my fault. The conclusion of my post is: BUILD WHAT YOU WANT, THE WAY YOU WANT AND FOR THOSE THAT AIN'T HAPPY WITH IT-----ONE WORD---TOUGH!!!!!
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Post by gatormarcstaug on Mar 22, 2011 10:17:25 GMT -5
@ muleskinner, I got your back bro!! @ Jerry I agree 100% I am really kinda new to the whole Forum thing. I joined my first one early last summer ( one of those with all the rules??). I am still a member there and still enjoying the models. Since joining my first Forum I have found several more, some are very active some are moderate to slow in activity. Each Forum has its own personality. But what really sticks in my craw is the so called Master Builders that criticize every ones work. Like a few others. I am getting older, have some health issues among other things. When I comment on a model I try to acknowledge the effort put into the build, recognize the things I like and possibly makes a reference to what I would've done to it. I am not going to slam any ones efforts. Whether or not I like the model the subject or the workmanship! To me model building is a form of relaxation, being somewhat creative and it is also therapy, not to mention a great activity when in my spousal avoidance mode :-). ( my wife fully supports my hobby for many reasons). Having spent almost 35 years pulling levers I have seen Contractors do some pretty neat stuff to some equipment to adapt it to a specific job. So hearing " the factory never did that!" Doesn't sit well with me. Sop lets all have fun, build what we like and get along! Oh If you can take the time to look at a build thread. Why can't you take the time to make a positive comment???
Be Well Gator
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Post by loghauler70 on Mar 27, 2011 19:53:01 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you guys more. One thing that iratates me is to be critacized by other modelers and when you go to see their work they never posted any. I feel these forums should be a way for us to help each other build better models as well. We all have our own for lack of a better term expetice. Mine happens to be log trucks. Other people on this forum have theirs. I am more than willing to help any one here in any way I can. I have been around trucks my entire life and drive every day so I have lotsa truck knowledge to share.
Mark
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Post by Bri on Mar 28, 2011 9:54:57 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind when it comes to "critiquing" a builder's work, is that there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. We all know that sometimes when we respond to something via the almighty keyboard, it doesn't always come out the way it's supposed to and sometimes people take away different tones from the response. Now, I'm not picking nits on those who build this type of model, but I will go out on a limb here and say the military and armor modelers I have dealt with in the past can be some of the nastiest when it comes to criticizing someone else's work. case in point. I built a replica of the A-10 Thunderbolt I crewed in Saudi during Desert Storm. I brought the completed model to a locla show that was affiliated with a very prominent gloabkl model association. When I put my kit on the table, I immediately started recieving feedback about the inaccuracies of my build. I was ingformed the A-10 was never configured for air-to-air combat and so forth. Now, this input was coming from the elder statesmen of our hobby who had no first-hand experience with the aircraft in question, other than pics from books and articles on the Military channel. It made no difference that I had first-hand experience with these aircraft and that I had personally seen my aircraft configured for both air-to-ground and air-to-air combat. Imagine the surprise of the "experts" when I produced photos of my aircraft with Sidewinder missles mounted on the outboard weapons stations. What's the point in this little story you ask? Very simple. Nobody knows everything about anything. As much as I love big rigs and with the amount of time i have spent working on them and driving them, I am the last person you will ever hear say I know all there is to know about these magnificent machines. I learn something new from every single build I see posted here, regardless of level of detail, level of builder experience, or what-have-you. The day we stop learning in this hobby is the day we stop building better models. When providing feedback on other people's work, whether it's here or elsewhere, we all must remember to be constructive in our input and not cut a fellow modeler's work down in the process. We have a great bunch of modelers here and the wealth of experience here is second to none. There is no reason why we all can't learn from eachother in positive ways rather than cutting someone's work down.
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78KW
Regional OTR Driver
Hard Time don't last...Trucker's do!
Posts: 2,467
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Post by 78KW on Mar 30, 2011 5:03:49 GMT -5
The day we stop learning in this hobby is the day we stop building better models. Amen, although I usually hear that said as, "The day I stop learning is the day I hang up my keys". It's been awhile since I've posted, but one nice thing, NO minimum post count. I know participation is important, but I never did like the requirement some forums have. I do like these forums, but sometimes you're just not able to post for awhile. Thanks for not doing that here. Although I haven't posted much in here for awhile, I do pop in. Now if I could just find time to finish a project once in awhile....
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Post by Bri on Mar 30, 2011 9:43:36 GMT -5
One thing I can guarentee you will NEVER see here is a minimum post count here. Not everyone can spend hours on end weeding through each and every thread and reply to each one just to get their post counts up. We just want this place known as a user friendly place where truck modelers can just come and relax and enjoy the hobby and share in the commin interest we all have here.
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Post by muleskinner on Mar 30, 2011 15:02:13 GMT -5
Well said Bri and I couldn't agree with you more. This is a hobby for all not just a few know it alls as you talked about as I have ran into them also at shows and else where. I'm sure if we all pull together, we can make this the best forum on the web!!!!!!!!! That model show you were talking about sounds like an International Perfect Modelers Show, which I was a member of long ago if you get my drift!!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 20:05:29 GMT -5
What I discoved from a recent Syracuse IPMS show, is that it is primaraly dominated by armor & ship modelers. Now, that's not to say that's a bad thing, but armor modelers do tend to get a little "rivet-countie", if you catch my drift. How many shades of Olive Drab can there be!!!
Ah, well. I enjoy this forum, I like the people here, and I will continue to post my work looking for comments & help. And with any luck I'll end up a better modeler.
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kerr54
Local Delivery Truck Driver
Posts: 189
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Post by kerr54 on Apr 8, 2011 22:17:33 GMT -5
I agree with that. Since I've become a member here I have been going through as many threads as I can to learn more about this site and the people in it. Constructive criticism is a good thing. I for one have only posted one item so far but I have seen other postings that well like Dieseldoc said, (I'm sorry I don't know everyone's name yet) I would say nothing. But if I post something on here I want people to tell me what it is I can do better and do it in a constructive way. That's how I am going to learn and to readjust my standards. Tbuskirk mentioned about family. The criticism should be like you would tell your children or grandchildren, in a inspiring way. I also think that developing that family atmosphere is very important here. People talking, sharing ideas, good or bad, having someone to express my thoughts and opinions about modeling with is very important to me because lets face it guys, how many people can you sit down and talk about this subject with? Me...zero...not many people appreciate our world of truck modeling or scratch building. Even when guest come to my house my trucks and stuff are displayed with pride on my living room wall but they look and say "that's nice" and turn their attention elsewhere. This is our world here, ours, and we need each other to talk with and to share our thoughts and feelings with about our hobbies and our expectations. I for one want to meet other truck modelers, get to know them and their builds and where they got their inspiration from and how they do what they do. That's why I am here. I want that truck modelers family. So maybe more of that family feeling here would do the trick. This is my thoughts and my name is Kerry
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2011 6:35:41 GMT -5
Very good points brought up. I also have run across the self proclaimed PRO or EXPERT and try to avoid them. I like that people can spend hours if not days on a single step (for example the engine). I love looking at a engine that has the right diameter fuel line and the air/vacuum lines that are going in the proper places. That workable shifter linkage with the working universal joints etc. The proper screw on oil filters with proper decals applied. I look at it WHY? When I build I build to my likes not someone elses. Why do I want to detail the engine that far just to not be seen when the hood is down. Yes I know I can do just as good but still will not consider myself an expert. In my book NOBODY is a expert. We all have flaws. I will not criticise anothers work because I was once there. Yes I have gotten better and the feeling is good to hear compliments on the subject. I will give ideas of how I would of done something instead of saying to someone "That looks like crap why did you do that you moron" "If you can't build then why bother" Those would never come out of my mouth to discourage anyone from this fine hobby. You would hear something like this " That is a unique way of doing that, If you want my opinion I would have done that like this not saying you did it wrong". That leaves it open for the person to make up his mind if he wants to leave it or redo it. Anyway it was done lets you know it can be done. Don't bash a person because the instructions say it HAS to go this way. I ran across a lot of Instructions that were WRONG! I can never build straight from a box. Theres always one little thing different that makes it my build. Built my way the way I wanted it built. As one of the members signatures say and it says it all "Build what you want the way you want it" not exact words but you get the drift. Do as I do when you get an EXPERT reply and they criticise your build, think to yourself like I do and say "Lets see some of your earlier work buddy" "You were not born an expert and in my book you still have not made it to that status"
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Post by gatormarcstaug on Apr 10, 2011 18:10:01 GMT -5
The right way and wrong way to critique( criticize) a build. I recently posted pi8tcures of one of my built up trucks on another forum. I got like three responses re; the model. A DAF dump truck . MY description of the model stated that it had been refurbished and that the truck would be relegated to site work or pit duty. No mention was made of where said truck would be working. All of sudden the comments turned into a chat about whether or not DAF's were sold in the states??? I mean really they completely ignored my model and took over the thread? Like WTF??? When I say something about someones model I will most often preface my comment by saying Tha I would have done such an such. Or that I do not care for a particular style of build, But I also add that they did this or that well ( IMHO). I do not start the post by slamming the model or counting rivets and claiming to be an expert. ( I know I am not, and don't want to be!!) Keep on Building Gator
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78KW
Regional OTR Driver
Hard Time don't last...Trucker's do!
Posts: 2,467
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Post by 78KW on Apr 10, 2011 23:32:55 GMT -5
I try to only count my own rivets. Unless someone asks a, "Was it like this on the real thing?" kind of questions, I don't like pointing out things like that. After all, once it rolls off the assembly line, anything goes as far as equipment added, changed or removed from a truck.
As for detailing those hard to see areas like the engine, and tractor frames, I do it for me, for fun.
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Post by muleskinner on Apr 12, 2011 0:24:32 GMT -5
I guess I can honestly say when it comes to building models I am a nonconformist and my own person. I spend a lot of time looking at a model before I build it trying to figure out what kind of destructive and misuse the same 1:1 would have went through over its years of service to the logging Industry. It's like a lot of people have said, once the unit leaves the factory it starts to change, kinda like a metamorphosis into the job it will perform. I've ran into this rivet counting and the factory never did that way on various occasions. In th International Perfect Modelers Shows, I was degraded a few times about the weathering of of my models and told that most companies keep their equipment clean and free of rust. BULL!! You show me a piece of equipment that's been in use for long years without rust dings dents and broken glass in the logging area or even the highway areas of the commercial industry and I will show you a piece of equipment which hasn't been working on the job. Even on the highway vehicles are not immune to the wear and tear of the job and Mother nature.
As far as rivet counting goes, in my opinion the ones who do this have it in their minds that they are the expert in the field of equipment and even military equipment as far as that goes. Let me give an example. When I was building model cars for awhile I was at a show in California. I had to be judged by a member on the IMPS who was a lot younger than I was and he really cut my mopars down because he said the way they were built just wasn't par with the factory releases and the changes weren't kosher to the modification field. I ask him about his experience with Mopars and he told me it from books and what his father told him about owning one. Well this led to the question I asked about his expertize in the field and he said he had enough of it to know what he was talking about and was knowledgeable enough to be a judge on the matter.
I then asked him if he had ever been around the type of car I modeled which happened to be a Plymouth super bird and he said no, and then began telling me all kinds of weird things like the wing and nose piece had to be ordered from the factory by the car owner and then he had to be install it once it arrived. This kinda of made me raise an eyebrow and then it dawned on me that in the model judging field. if you can show and convince others that you know what you are talking about, you can judge others on their building and say what is right or wrong. This of course is Crap in my book, because this field changes every day with the release of newer and the older models, some of which most of the younger generation has never been around or experienced in real life. It really twists my lead line to no end to see a younger modeler build a car from before his generation and display it only to have some of the older Modelers cut it down because the factory never did it that way or it is beyond the image of customized models of the days.
I'm from the old school, which I learned that one thing you do with a new vehicle is tear it down and see what makes it run and then put it back together again disregarding any extra parts left over because they must not be important anyway. This is the part of learning. Its the same with model building, except that every thing is already torn down thus eliminating step one, and so you proceed to step two putting it together. Thats where its up to the modeler what right and wrong in his eyes and to heck what everybody else says. Now Ive never put a model kit together yet where I didn't have left over parts, which leads to step three Discard them to the parts box because they weren't important to the build.
To all the Peter Perfect out there who have to be right on down to the minutest detail, just remember there is always someone who is going to come along with something a little bit better and done a little bit different and a better way of doing things and you are going to be left in the dust of the wacky races. Me I'm more like a thingy Dastardly and don't give a flying hoot about whether something is liked or not liked. I can tell by the readers on the thread as compared to the comments on the thread whether something is accepted or not for what it represents.
One thing I have come to accept on these forums, is the fact that most of the members are not in the Prehistoric age group I am in and have never seen the equipment or items I build. So if I was in their shoes I wouldn't know what to comment on or not let a lone know how the machinery was used. Most people have never had the off road experience that some of use have had over the years working in the hidden commercial fields of the woods Sawmills, steel mills or highway contruction. Most have only seen what runs up and down the highway on a daily basis and have been around on lots and truck stops or what ever else. When I was young I always seen Cats and Scrapper and what not working on the roads and they were fairly clean, but when I was introduced to the Logging industry some of the vehicles I seen looked as though they were derelict relics waiting for the torch until I seen operators get up on them and go to work. Wow did my world change quick as far as the way things were supposed to look.
To those rivet counters and Perfectionist in this field I say don't go knocking another modelers build unless you know the reason for it being built thast way and to those who like to branch out and explore the areas of scratch building and modifying your way I say drive on Dude thats where a lot of todays modern equipment comes from anyway. From experimenters like you. I guess what I really am trying to say is no one in the modeling field is perfect and no two of us are the same when it comes to thinking and building. So instead of being the Peter Perfect, look, observe the techniques, ask questions and you might learn something you never knew. For its not how the factory does it, it's how the modeler sees it after it leaves the factory.
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78KW
Regional OTR Driver
Hard Time don't last...Trucker's do!
Posts: 2,467
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Post by 78KW on Apr 12, 2011 14:38:08 GMT -5
All good points, muleskinner. One of the things I love about seeing your builds is the little history lesson you give regarding the equipment.
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